Yes, yes, it’s the Sholay hangover. Rather RGV ki Aag hangover (ugghh)
But it’s got me thinking about this act – “Suicide.”
Killing oneself.
Man’s way of telling God ‘You Don’t Fire Me, I Quit.’
A crime punishable according to the Indian Penal Code.
A sin, according to all major religions.
An act looked down upon by nearly all as an act of cowardice and an act of ungratefulness for the Almighty who gave life oh so mercifully.
A psychiatric syndrome.
What all is it and what all is it not? What all is it under all conditions, and what all is it under some conditions? (Yeah, Relative..Smiles...)
To live life, one needs courage. But to die, too, is courage unnecessary? How many men would be able to embrace death willingly? Few, very few indeed.
Also, when we say ‘living life’ what exactly do we mean by that? According to a lovely line by Ms. Rand, life is something that has motive and motion. Have come across so many people who have neither, or have one of the two, or if they luckily have both then they are both at odds with each other! Moreover, most men do not even realize until the very end what it was they had been lacking. In short, very few ‘live’; they exist and existence does not need courage. For these ‘existers’ are as big, perhaps bigger cowards than 'suiceders'. And yet we have no moral preachings and no religious texts for such individuals.
If you analyze it, it also comes out as another example of selfishness being denigrated over selflessness –
We have the phenomenon of dying for a cause. People who have died for a cause have gone down in history as men of bravery and courage. Men who have laid down their lives for others have so many times become heroes.
And on the other hand are men who die for individual causes, for selfish motives – and they are labeled as cowards, unreasonable, irrational, fools, mentally unstable, psychiatric cases, insane and yes, ungrateful!
Another aspect – Men who ‘live for others’ are thought of greatly (and incidentally such people think highly of themselves, too – lolz. How many times have I come across such dialogues, ‘I am living only for the sake of this, this or this’!!!!) And men who die for themselves are considered criminals.
So think about it - Is Suicide an Irrational/Unreasonable act always? Is Suicide an Immoral Act? Is Suicide an act of cowardice? Is Suicide an offence? Is life always better than Death? Is mere vegetable existence better than death? Do we have a logical approach to Suicide? Are we rationaly judging Suicide?
If you see, the widely-discussed Mercy Killing debate may well enter the issue.
Controversial topic, I know – but would love to thresh it :)
And no, I am not suicidal so please do not worry!
18 comments:
@Deepti
'Couldn't resist the temptation to quote Rand here,"suicide is anti life,anti mind and anti man."
A man's life is just not surviving.Animals also survive and then perishes.A man's life is its standard of values.Our existence on earth is our goal and we must choose our actions and values by the standard of that which is proper to man-for purpose of preserving,fulfilling and enjoying the irreplacable value which is your life."
Regarding living for others is all nobility is a catch phrase and I implore you not to fall prey to this kind of booby traps. It is a catch phrase and I implore u not to fall into such boobytraps.Answer me honestly Deepti, do u need others for living in your self?Do u crave for greatness in other people's eyes?Should others dictate ur convictions?Do u want to achieve or u want to be admired as an achiever?Do u want to create or u want to create for making impressions on others?Think Deepti whether u care for ur own efforts,work,ideas or care for other people's judgement 'bout ur work and creation?
Once u've found the answers,u'll know that you needn'tlive for others save your own self.I promise u ,u'll never need to seek happiness elsewhere but you.Every form of happiness and satisfaction is private.Now tell me where's the scope for absurdities in life or insignificance in life as you have mentioned earlier?
dying for others is a glorified act..but dying for urself is a crime.....
i just cant agree with this absurdity.... in my humble opinion suicide is also a way to express ur freedom of expression.... if i dont want to live why should i live...if i dont have a goal in life....if i dont have ne dreams left....if my survival will work as a slow poison nd kill me gradually..why the hell i should live...... living is not a big deal....even insects live.....its how we live..that matters..... why should i live just for the sake of living...why should i survive just for the sake of survival!!!!
Answer me honestly Deepti, do u need others for living in your self?Do u crave for greatness in other people's eyes?Should others dictate ur convictions?Do u want to achieve or u want to be admired as an achiever?Do u want to create or u want to create for making impressions on others?Think Deepti whether u care for ur own efforts,work,ideas or care for other people's judgement 'bout ur work and creation?
Hey June, the blog is not with 'me' in mind. I know why I am alive and what I am alive for :)
The thing I wish to regard here is are we having the correct approach toward a Suicidal case?
@Deepti
You took it quite literally?It was just a style of writing.If we can place ourselves in the victim's position,we'll be able to judge their apporoach towards ending their own life.It was just a figurative way of expression.I KNOW PERFECTLY WELL THAT U OF ALL PERSON CANNOT AND WOULD NOT BUY THIS CONCEPT at any point in ur life. Once again 'we are what we choose to be'(A.Rand)
@musings
“Answer me honestly Deepti, do u need others for living in your self? Do u crave for greatness in other people's eyes? Should others dictate ur convictions?Do u want to achieve or u want to be admired as an achiever?Do u want to create or u want to create for making impressions on others?Think Deepti whether u care for ur own efforts,work,ideas or care for other people's judgement 'bout ur work and creation?”
I asked all these questions from myself and I must say that what all-good work I do, somewhere there is a hidden agenda of getting appreciated/admired. I do not know whether it is the case with every one. Somewhere there is a feeling of satisfying my self that I am a good Human and better than others. But I am not able to come out of this feeling. Probably if I come out of this, I fear I may loose the drive of doing any good of the sake of others. Can anybody help me in coming out of this box?
chirag
@Piyush
Yes, I think I understand what you mean.
@ June
Oh dear, I am afraid I did take it quite literally!
Yes, that is the point...at times wen I put myself in a suicider's shoes (Oh dear, sounds ghastly) I do have this feeling that he/she was justified. In many cases, naturally, I feel it is not so..when I feel that the victim was too hasty and did it in a fit og anger or desperation..That is why I thought of wrting this morbid piece!
@ Chirag
It is of prime importance that you do something to please yourself. The moment you turn your reasons for doin something inwards, think only of your reason for doing it, admiration and acclaim will come automatically...and to be frank, you wil be the last person to care if it comes or not...your work shall become your only satisfaction...
@deepti....
thnk god that u understood.....coz most people wont..... suicide is really a taboo word.... a crime in the eyes of law..... but is it really a crime..... if u successfully implements the crime...u r free from all bonds... all sufferings..free from an aimless life......
whats wrong in getting freedom....
The fundamental concept of living in a society or being social animals is that others in the society affect us and vice versa. An individual cannot be allowed to enjoy his freedom of expression if it is detrimental to the society in larger good. There are various scenarios to understand this:-
1. A person may find happiness/satisfaction/high in doing drugs as it is his right to enjoy himself as long as he is not forcing anybody else to do so. But all religions and the law do not permit it and term it as crime because such people are setting a wrong example for the society.
2. A two-wheeler driver has a right to drive without hamlet as he is risking his own life but this is against the law because the law believes that even if that person has sound and mature brain to think for his own good but still few laws are mandatory keeping in mind the consequences of an accident.
3. A gay marriage is not permitted because it will set a bad example even though the two individuals will live a happy life.
4. As you can see in the latest news that a village Panchayat in Karnal declayered a marriage within same Gotra as illegal.Now, the new breed of intellectuals are ridiculing the Talibani decision of the society (panchayat) but they fail to the implications of such examples. Let us forget the scientific evidence that has proved that such marriages lead to genetic disorders. Let only consider the disorders in the society. Even until today cousin (brothers) are regarded as sacred like real brothers in India but incest an epidemic in west. Now one may argue what wrong incest relations as long as both parties are happy but its implications are disastrous.
Piyush, I am glad I could. At times, you know, a failed attempt at suicide is very successful in teaching the person a new way to live. A brush with death in any form will increase one's respect for life. What say?
Admirable Chirag. Yes Suicide is very much in league with the issues you have mentioned - except one thing - each issue mentioned by you has a cpuntering activity (viz. not taking drugs,wearing helmets, heterosexual marriages, non-incest relationships) just as suicide has (viz,'living' and 'living for others') The formers are not given a social recognition as a great act, while the latter, 'living for others' has been adorned with that. As a result, the gap between the 2 (suicide and staying living), the moral gap, widens.
Each logial individual has to perform a Cost-Benefit Analysis of all his acts all the times - and since he is logical, he must adopt that path which is beneficial for him at a given moment. Laws, I strongly believe, are generalized.
P.S. You would say Gay Marriages are wrong? Why?
Also, sam-gotra marriages are not the same thing as Incest. I am sure you must be aware of that.
“Yes Suicide is very much in league with the issues you have mentioned - except one thing - each issue mentioned by you has a cpuntering activity (viz. not taking drugs, wearing helmets, heterosexual marriages, non-incest relationships) just as suicide has (viz,'living' and 'living for others') The formers are not given a social recognition as a great act, while the latter, 'living for others' has been adorned with that.”
The counter activity of ‘Suicide’ is ‘Not doing the suicide’. But even if I buy your argument that suicide has two counter activity choices namely ‘living’ and ‘living for others’. Taking Drugs has counter activities like ‘not taking drugs’,’ preventing others from not taking drugs’,’ helping rehabilitation of drug abusers’…etc etc.On similar lines counter activity of ‘Gay marriage’ can be ‘heterosexual marriage’,’ No marriage’ or ‘celibacy or Brahmcharya’.In all of them formers are not given a social recognition as a great act but later are.
“Each logical individual has to perform a Cost-Benefit Analysis of all his acts all the times - and since he is logical, he must adopt that path which is beneficial for him at a given moment. Laws, I strongly believe, are generalized.”
When precedence is given to a personal logic then no body on earth will let down his own logic. Everybody in its state of mind guided by his school of thought adopts that path which is beneficial for him at a given moment. Now this will include all terrorist groups,LTTE,Taliban,Bush,Saddam,Peadopliles,Murderers,Arjun Sigh,Ramdoss,Paswan,Praksh Karat,Manmohan Singh………
Thus, LAW becomes mandatory.
“sam-gotra marriages are not the same thing as Incest. I am sure you must be aware of that.” Actually, I can elaborate a lot on this topic but one must be conversant with the law. There is some thing like “Hindu Marriage Law”,” Customary Law” which can be read to understand the definitions of Incest. It is not your fault but it is the fault of missionary/convent education, which has changed the definitions of everything custom as per their (western) social norms. A marriage between parallel cousins is regarded as incest in some societies but cross-cousin is not considered. There are many states in USA where marriage between first cousins is not incest but I am sure you will never accept it to happen here where I wear 7-11 rakhis every year tied by my cousins. Therefore, the onus is on us to pick up any definition as per our convenience or as per our customary law.
Coming to the last point…” You would say Gay Marriages are wrong. Why?”…Yeah I agree they have their rights but then what is wrong with a brother marrying his own sister. At some point of time we have to make laws not it depends where we draw a line but there will always be a group to individuals who challenge these laws and I have no idea how to deal with such situation as every body has some basic rights.
" At some point of time we have to make laws not it depends where we draw a line but there will always be a group to individuals who challenge these laws and I have no idea how to deal with such situation as every body has some basic rights. "
Once more a commendable post Chirag, but more commendable is your attitude - after such a nice write up you ended by putting across a point that defeated your own points, though it did state your honest opinion. Many a time while arguing people refuse to acknowledge facts which may be contrary to what they are arguing in the favour of - so keep it up! :)
Yes - Celibacy is celebrated, but in essence it is as anti-propagation as gayism and suicide. Strange, the mass view about them are so opposite. I still dont understand why gayism be looked askance upon. And I have said enough on what I feel about suicide so no more of it!
I am not a student of the laws, hence do not know of the Hindu Marriage Act. But I am a student of Biology and I know that marriage between blood relatives is genetically unhealthy (though it is not Universal and is a controversial issue in Genetics - It is a normal thing amongst animals and it is naturally the only option if a population is on verge of extinction or has just begun propagating. It is because you are considering 'Human Beings' that it seems such an issue. But dont forget even we began at some point with only Adam and Eve! Incest was a necessity at that point! Will a Law make propagation/mainatenance of a species illegal? No, right?) Also, a sam-gotra marriage may not always mean marriage between blood-relatives. For instance, the children of my maasi or bua wil not be of my gotra and yet be my blood relatives. Some xyz person can chance to be of my gotra and yet not be an immediate blood relative.
Yes, Laws are mandatory. No sensible person wil say otherwise. I respect the law and abide by it as much as I can. But I dare to assert that any moment I find a law infringing an Individual's basic rights I shall not have any qualms breaking it! Tell me is Law above the individual? Is it always an instrument of justice? You mention LTTE and Al Quaida. And I mention thousands of women who are raped and dont get the satisfaction of seeing the perpetrartor of the crime getting adequate punishment. (And dont label me as an enemy of society now...lol)
What I am getting at is - it is necessary to do a case by case analysis. In the issues that you have mentioned, including Suicide. One cannot afford to generalize.
Hmmmm...lets end the arguments because they have been an healthy discussion till now and I appreciate you views though I do nota agree to them.
"I mention thousands of women who are raped and dont get the satisfaction of seeing the perpetrartor of the crime getting adequate punishment"
Suppose my sister gets raped today while comming from her college.
1.My mother will cry for 2 days but will not go to the police saying that this is ruin her chances to get married.
2.My father will say People will make fun of our family honour.
3.My Younger Bother will start searching the Perpetrators vowing to kill them but my Grandmonther will say "Whatever has been lost cannot be restored,there is no ponit in messing with anti-social elements"
4.My Aunts will point out the kind of Dresses my sister wears while going to college.Had she been as decent as their daughters,things would have been different.
5.The Perpeterators know this mentality of Middle class very well.
6.In case the Perpetrator is a known person.The mother,sister,daughter,wife will come to my house, fall on my father's feet.They will say even if you want to kill the perpetarator,do so,but donot go to the Police.Going to police will ruin the whole family.
The case never reaches the Police,most of the cases which are registered are framed cases.Otherwise the law is so tough that there is no scope of perpetrator getting scotfree.
I am telling you not for argument but bacause you are a Girl and you should know this.
Oh ok..Cease fire by all means! But cannot resist a parting shot - Even after such dire consequences those victims who even dare to come forward can see the culprit getting a max of 7 years RI! Grossly unfair, no?
The rape punishment can extend upto life sentence but still its not enough.Many NGOs have been advocating a death Penalty for rape convicts but there is lack of Political will to do so.Morover there is a strong Lobby of "Human Rights Activists" who are opposing Death Penalty even in the 'rarest of rare cases'.But I strongly feel against such barbaric perpetrators.Someday I will ensure tough laws are made.
Deepti,now even if law makers are reluctant, we as a society can play a very important role.There are other ways of tackling such people while the trial is going on.Such people should be bycotted in the society,they should be looked upon with disgust,they should not be entertained in workplaces,religious places.Like it happens in US,such convicts even after they complete their sentence,they are not allowed to go near schools,hostels etc.There name and details are made public so that the whole society knows about them.In short they should not be left with any sympathisers.Each and every moment they spend should be a burden to them,they should not be allowed to forget that they are a lump of shit.In everybody's they should see the anger.Like it happened in Nithari case.And Yesterday,In Lucknow people killed a Man who raped a 3 yr girl.He was the neighbour and was adoured by that girl child as 'Tau'(Uncle).Even Police officials didnot stop the relatives from killing that monster.This is a very good change in the society.
Yess!! Thts wat I m saying that Laws may not be always correct and always adequate.
I remember a song by System of a Down
"I think you don not trust
In my self-righteous suicide"
This is quite a question indeed, suicide, Can it ever be self-righteous?
I think thousand times, and I think whether it demands courage or not, to commit suicide, then I think does it take any courage to fail in a dream project and take my habd of?
Does it take any courage to say I can not do it any more?
Does it take any courage to say I know not and I dare not to know any more?
And no it does not..
But it indeed takes courage to retire and to say I have had enough...I have achieved enough and want not any more of it.
Retiring and fleeing is not same.
Now, if I label the first as ICCHAMRITYU and the second as ATMAHATMA, then can we generalise between the two?
Euthanasia, mercy killing that is, is justified and is necessary many times...
But one must differentiate between a man fleeing and a man retiring..
The premises are confusing, and hence no clear answer I can not draw.
Sometimes, it appears to me to very romantic indeed!!!
If Euthanasia is necessary at times then so is Suicide. I mean, consenting to get killed, and killing oneself - such a thin line!
Then of course, euthanasia for physical suffering being necessary at times, what about mental suffering? Why should mind be treated differently from body?
Also, it is nice to separate self-killing under diffrnt headings of icchamrityu and atmahatya..but is it so? Even Sati and Jouhar come under the same heading. Would you call voluntary Sati (not its tyrannical version, naturally) suicide? Even going into long yog nidra or attaining nirvana wil be termed suicide by some - but you cannot call it that can you?
All said and done, most typical suicide cases are 'fleers' and there is no denying that. But those who 'retire' from life, how correct is it to label them coward and insane...everytime I discuss it, the same thought comes to mind - I would not like to generalize but to keep an open mind about everything.
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