From Adam's ribs to The President of the largest democracy in the world - Ms. Eve, you have come a long way!
I wish to salute Womanhood today thought it's not 8th March.
The fact that there are so many centuries between Razia Sultan and Pratibha Patil is something of a damper, but, chalta hai, folks! Better late than never, so they say, and we are still ahead of US of A in this one, lolz. The non-selection of Kiran Bedi for that coveted post is another damper, but still - at least we are moving ahead in the right direction and I am feeling very optimistic at the moment!
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- COOLDEEPTEA
- 10 things you ought to know about me 1. I am scared of crossing roads 2. I trip every 500 meters I walk 3. I sleep with lights on because I am terrified of ghosts 4. I have a penchant for misplacing stuff 5. I have watched Padosan 156 times. Chupke Chupke and Golaaml follow closely 6. I have crushes only on cricketers and movie villains 7. I have tried to quit studies 4 times and failed 8. I cannot exist without Maggi 9. I dislike spiritual gurus 10.I am a very private person :\
27 comments:
I guess PP being The P is no big deal.. just a symbolic gesture at a symbolic position...
Indiraji did this earlier.. and HOW..!!
U girls just need some excuse to get started dont u..!???
:)
Kudos to you Deepti to come up with this little thought on Woman.Women can have it all, but you know she doesn't want it all.I think that's her biggest strength. They are physically, emotionally and intellectually capable to withstand pain, sufferings,torment and misery,yet she can smile when she actually wants to cry. She is strongest when she thinks nothing left in her.
@Viv
Symbolic, yes, but an achievement nonetheless!
@June
Beautifully put :)
hey, do u all still think der r differebces between male- female capabiliies? i suppose ders none....
as for pratibha patil, there were more eliginrle candidates then her...
@ viv
ohh... i managed to keep it short...
@ Ranjeet
Yes, I am afraid I still believe that, because I still see it around me! It will take time to get rid of, but as I mentioned in the write-up - we are moving in the right direction :)
And pray tell me, what did you mean by there being more elgible candidates?
look its nothing about being a lady.. she just doesnt have it in her... has been related to cheat companies.. none of it makes her a great public figure...
I'd rather give APJ one more term..
Well deepti, you can say that it is pride for woman, but is it really?
Remember, our patriarchs also worshipped Durga, Kaali etc, etc
And they respected woman as mother-sister
And this was all crap.
I think Prativa as a woman was used, and hypocrite lefts were taken by that..it also shut old gunners like shivraj patil and pranab mukho.
woman has been used by males whenever they wanted...and they are still being now...and coming to the fore-front is through supporting this dominat patriarchy..and Prativa has proven herself excellent at that.
I really feel half the Indian woman are idiot, woman in general are :D
They can be fooled by things as families and toys and while the boys had all the fun!!!
As Viv said, it is just a gesture...
P.S.
the position of Indian Woman is clearly indicated by the faliure to bring about the woman reservation bill...
I don't support that though..it is again a disgrace...still, it has never been opposed for this very reason..
well, i am getting too emotional at this moment...so, let me shut up now
@Ramyangshu
Why is worshipping Durga and Kali by our patriarchs 'crap'? I think it is one of the most sensible things of Hinduism, and you will understand that if you have read Da Vinci Code.
Woman coming ahead only by borrowing support from 'dominant patriarchy' is I am afraid a rather narrow statement and reeks too much of negativity - not to say anything about your view regarding the IQ of the fair sex - just because we have an emotional side to our nature does not mean we have divorced our brain from sense. Never forget - a woman's sensitivity is NOT ALWAYS at the cost of her sensibility. Idiocy is not reserved for females for I have come across several men with empty top storeys.
@All
This write up is not an ode to Pratibha Patil, so do not treat it as one. It is written for WOMAN.
@Chirag
A sensible solution, thank you. I shall let you know if and when it is used to solve the trouble.
No, choosing B over all the others was not an arbitrary decision of A - it was taken only after he had assessed the spiritual heights attained by each candidate.
As far as candidates outside the family are concerned - well believe it or not - but there weren't any.
Succession has always been in controversy, right from Mahabharata(Kuravas and Pandawas),Mughal Empire(Shaha-Jahan declayered his eldest son Dara as his successor but there was a war for succession between his 4 sons...Murad,Shuja,Auranzeb and Dara for 2 years....Aurangzeb won at last) till today.
Everybody knows about the two sons of Karunanidhi fighting for Political Legacy in Tamil Nadu.Uddhaw Thakarey, Raj Thakarey fought to become the heir of Shiv Sena, and Bal Thakarey eventually took side of his son Uddaw.
According to Hindu Succession Act, the inherited property should be equally distributed between B to H irrespective of the desire of A. This is what law says.
However, as the matter you have referred is not about money so I assume it is not about the monetary value of the property.
Therefore, it becomes a matter of Succession of Faith or School of Thought. Now here with due respect to A, it was A's fault to pass his Legacy to his Son.
Why did he limit his options just to one of his seven sons?
When there is a question of legacy of Organizations like Ashrams, Temples, Political Organizations, the approach is different. They should not be treated, as family businesses should have chosen one of his disciples as the legal heir for his Organization. It is hard to believe that there was not even a single disciple who was more capable than his seven sons (B-H) were.
B being close to A cannot be treated as a criterion for passing the legacy of such sacred organizations.
Now I believe B-H are old enough to forget their grieviences.Its been 60 years since independence they would have grown at least 60+10 years.
Solution: The best way to deal with such situations is to register such Organizations as Trust. The constitution of that Trust should be drafted in line with the teachings and philosophy of A (not B -H).
B, E, F, H along with 5 other trusted disciples should become the founding members of that Trust. I am sure B will be respected for this deed. They should start thinking about the expansion plans for the Organization.
Regards'
Chirag
@deepti
If this article is written for WOMEN,then I am sure you can find far better examples than Pratibha Patil.
Pratibha Patil clad in Khadi from head to toe looks like Secreatary of some Khadi Udyog.
I don't think she has done anything remarkable for the cause of Women in her long Political career.
She is so lame that she still lives with a husband who is charged with murder.She relatives have been declayered as Defaulters by Reserve Bank of India for taking loans running above crore rupees.The name of the bank was "Pratibha Cooperative........bank" meant for helping women.
I have never heard her personal opinion on any of the National Issues.Be it a Women's Reservation Bill or Granting Death Panelty to Rapists.
Rejoicing on Pratibha Patil is like rejoicing for Rabadi Devi becoming a CM.
I know your intentions are not to pay ode to PP.But please choose somebody else.There are hundreds of examples.Kiran Bedi is just one of them.
You bet there are 100s of women worth mentioning - these 2 were mentioned because of their recent trysts with the front page of the newspapers. And believe me dude, Rabari may have become the CM of Bihar coz of Lalu but boy o boy has she improved as an orator and smartened herself..lolz!
Today women are more visible in every field but they are not strongly participating in policy making. They are there in media, Bollywood but when it comes to hard talk, women are not visible. Hard talking women are targets where they are challenging the status quo.
Believe me; women are much braver than what is portrayed. The set up of the society is such that even the women do not want women to raise arms against the Evil in society.
I have worked closely with some NGOs in India so I can tell it is women who are working closely with men against women.
hmm, yes...woman as woman's worst enemy is something even I have come across now and then.
Deepti,
I have read Da Vinchi Code, and I do like the idea...
And the statement about woman was a comic relief..
Well to get back to serious stuff,
I do not have any problem about our patriarchs worshipping Durga and Kali..It is not crap..
Crap is this..
If you could recognise the power that is in woman and worship her as durga and kaali, in what sense you would keep them bound inside the house. Now, many would argue that this came with the Victorian English, or with Muslim, But we do remember one Khana...have you heard about her?
India had its share of woman scholers and they have been glorified in history...Take the example of Gargi, who beat Yagyabalka muni in debate..
But, what after that..
My point was that the Mother-Sister place that has been attributed to woman gave them respect...
But did it give them the fair share of life?
A woman could only live life being a good mother/sister/wife.
Is it not crap.
No body denies that this parts are woman's glory, but are these not dependent on choice..
I stress on the point that the life of a woman has to be decided by her and there can not exist a separte set of ethics for her...
Ethics are the same for all...
Woman and man only have exceptional add ons..
The power of patriarchy is to give woman the sense of social security by giving them the mother/sister staus. And patriarchy won many a woman heart by doing that...Till, they realised there is more to it..
Notice the word more here...
I would like to dig this part more if anybody is interested.
If you have read one book by Sharat Chandra, which deals with koulinya pratha..(i Dont remember the name right now), you would know what I mean by coming in the front raw through the help of patriarchy...Not as a woman, but as a supporter of the system..
And lastly, I do not agree to your last statement..
Woman is the worst enemy of woman..
there is much more to this...then as much is made clear...
Well, carry it on...I like this topic..
we had it unsolved in Rand community...let's talk it here
It is so surprising that to substantiate your arguments you are giving examples from stories derived from novels. These novels are written for entertainment, not to draw inferences in the real world. They are a work of some man’s imagination.
This is the problem, which we all face because we have these stories (fiction) somewhere down our subconscious and they manipulate our decision-making. Even I have faced this problem and eventually I decided not to read fiction rather avoid fiction works of people like that of Karan Johar and Ekta Kapur.
For those who seriously want to dig into the phrase said by Deepti...” Woman is the worst enemy of woman..” I would suggest them to read the Women oriented cases decided by Supreme Court of India and High Courts reported in AIR. Just by counting the number of PW’s and DW’s you will get the fair idea about real life.
“Satya kalapana se zyada Vichitra hota hai”
@chirag Sharma
Hi..
I am not drawing inference from the novel.
I mentioned the novel just because it stems from reality, infact every SHarat Chandra novel does.
The situation might be imaginary, but they deal with the existing reality..
And I mentioned the book for I believe that Deepti has read Sharat Chandra..
neways, coming back to the point,
Do all the truths in our system arise from our experienced reality? If we limit ourselve to only that, we will only be limiting ourselves..but, thts another matter....
In a patriarch system, woman are pitted against each other and they are the one who are the miss iron hands of this system...
Patriarchy is not a system deviced by male...but, it is a system that supports male supreemacy..and through centuries, its root has gone very deep in our social dealings, literature, music, customs..patriarchy has entered our breathing system...and we don't find it strange anymore..
Male and female are not essentially same in structure and physiology and psychae..
The hormones acting on the brain produces the outcome..
But, the purpose of the difference is sustaining the existance of human species here..and the roles has been diferentiated biologically..
The problem of patriarchy has been bringing these biological differences as the decider of social positioning. As the soceity has changed we know that it is absurd to keep our females bound inside our home.so, we let them ork..now, that may be presented as freedom from patriarchy..but, really it is not..
The Patriarchy as a system defines a man as the centre of family. Patriarchy as a system defines male as the driving force, female as the containing force. Patriarchy as a system requires supporters and both male and female are its supporters..The strength of patriarchy is in ignorance of woman, and in those woman who has thought in it..never free from it..
In patriarchy, woman has ot been negected personally, infact it demands that every woman must be respected as mother/sister..Now, you may say that what is wrong with that..And I will say everything for it provides scope of descrimination...
I would like to dig more in to this,,provided a healthy debate+discussion
@WWA
I respect your opinion.Can you please elaborate the type of social system you are trying to advocate.
@Ramyangshu
Man, when you are serious your views match so much with mine!
First of all I shall admit to two of my ignorances - have not heard of 'one Khana' and have not read all the works of Sarat Chandra, so I shall need your elaboration on both issues.
I agree with there being the ancient and ingrained dissimilarity between the ethics of man and woman. Look at Ahilya - for one breach of the sacred pact of marriage she gets cursed. Look at Draupadi - for marrying 5 husbands at the behest of Kunti she gets labelled as a whore and suffers the ignominy of cheer-haran. And yet men go scot free after polygamy and multiple affairs throughout mythology. The glorification of virginity, the concept of pati-parmeshvar, the description of woman by Bhishma to Yudhishthira as being a source of evil distraction - and added to it the physical weakness of woman that is responsible for her succumbing to physical atrocities are together to be blamed for the Gargis of yore being imprisoned in the four walls of the house. The advent of Muslims did increase the rate of these physical atrocities and hence the systems of Parda, Sati and Jauhar catapulted into prominence.
Taking a leap to our times, well, I think you are not far wrong in saying that woman is being fooled by the patriarchy. Incidentally, here I need to apologize to you for not getting the joke :) And hence, my response was more of a reaction. The concept of female lib has the distinct sentiment "I can also do what a male can do" in the sub conscious of oh so many women! As a result I have seen my mom and aunts struggling to maintain a balance between job and home, earning the money as well as cooking at the fire while dad and uncles casually blame them if mine or my cousins' homework has not been properly! (But that trend has also been gradually changing as men and women of our generation move towards a better partnership, as I have observed with several of my friends) There has also been observed a downslide in the self-esteem of housewives, who look down upon themselves for not being career-women.
Hence my belief that the definition of female lib needs to be changed. Woman needs to think and decide for herself, and this should be the true essence of liberation - the freedom of choice - and this too is something you have mentioned in your post. If woman wants to be a Dangny Taggart and wishes to run a railroad company or wants to be a Dominique Francona and spend her life worshipping a Roark is purely her choice.
As for woman being a woman's worst enemy, man you have to agree that women are more prone to jealousy than men are and several times do not rise above that weakness. Have seen so many of my friends moved to do silly things driven by petty envies - and that is why Chirag and me have taken the view that at times woman does end up being woman's worst enemies.
And yes, experienced reality being the only source of truth may narrow down the field of truth, but I rather like to stick to it for most of my thinking, too.
Please feel free to comment on this issue - we are open for a discussion on this topic
@Chirag
Oh come on, so long as fiction does not affect your thought process, it is good entertainment! and realistic fiction (sounds so weird!) does exist in the world of literature :)
@Deepti
This is most relevant definition of Women Liberation I have come across.Deepti has very well brought out the practical aspects of family life in India.
I do agree that “the concept of pati-parmeshvar” is a biased concept. But “Draupadi - for marrying 5 husbands at the behest of Kunti she gets labeled as a whore and suffers the ignominy of cheer-haran”….Draupadi has never been referred as whore by the society(except by Kaurav Camp).Her getting married to 5 men has been explained in Mahabharata as the cause of her desire for 5 qualities in her husband. Lord Shiva warned her that these 5 qualities cannot be found in one man but she insisted on her demand. Rihsi Vyas in Mahabharata have told this.
However, putting Draupadi on gamble is a debatable issue and I do agree that it shows the male chauvinistic attitude of the society(or Pandavas)
We should see that other side of the coin too.
Mahabharata also glorifies Gandhari.And a lot of respect is attributed to her sacrifice for her husband. It was her Shrap, which led to destruction to vansh of Krishna.So even the avatar of God was not shielded against a sacrifice of women.
Now people may say…”Why women only sacrifise”.But our religious scriptures are full of sacrifices of both men and women. All those who sacrificed are respected universally.
The vow of rajkumari Amba of Kashi to be the cause of Bhisma’s death has been respected through out. She was born in the house of King Drupad as Shikhandi.
There are examples where because of women(Satyawati) and noble man (Bhishna) had to lead a life full of sacrifices. Needless to say, about chastity of Satyawati who already had a son before her marriage from Rishi Parashar.That son is known as Rishi Vyas.
Through out Mahabharata men have been referred by the names of their great mothers…like Ganga Putra, Kauntaye,Yashoda Nandan etc etc.
@deepti
The free society is that soceity which promotes freedom..And woman should be free to become whatever they want...
As you say..
The contrast I see in todays soceity is that our woman has been given an ieal defination which arrests all developement on her part and potrays her as something pure, which needs to be protected, which is above the general human...BRING HER DOWN TO EARTH where she belongs..make her choose..
I don't disagree with a non-working woman, and I never say she is not ideal, ultimately all depends on the concept of higher value.
In our soceity, the highest value that has been attributed makes woman weak and meek.
Well,
Khana was a woman, a wife. If you have heard of Barah Mihir, it would be easy to tell you the story.It is believed that Barah Mihir was father and son and Khana was their daughter in law.
Khana was an astrolger/pandit like her father in law Barah..and once she contradicted one prediction made by him, and her version came right. Barah, instead of feeling proud for his bahu, felt hurt.
He demanded one sacrifice from Khana, he wanted her to cut her tongue so tht she is not able to make any more predictions...nd thats what she did..
And the story of Sharat Chandra should be told to them who has read..literature is open to interpretations..
Coming back to woman liberation, we are almost free in this part today..Infact many males prefer working woman..But, the question is whether the mindset has changed? Is not woman still a reproduction machine who is cutivated by her man? Is not she the one who takes all the blames and pains to bring up HER child?
There are a lot of stories that deal with this developement...Not enough space to tell them though..
A woman working/not working is never a matter. But, economic freedom is the foundation for all other freedoms...
And houswives will look down upon themselves as they have failed the test.
Look at this interesting contribution of Patriarchy..It makes the life of a woman so much psudo-secure...That you need not take one test in this life if you are born with the right stats and in the right family...And many woman like many man take the first available option to a secured life..they say yes to patriarchy...And realisation of this mistake takes generations to come...
If you want to rule somebody, what do you do? Make him weak by making him dependent on something..Patriarchy has..and to stop any revolution, it has provided sweet words for woman..It has made woman realise that they are the gate of hell...
For whom? For man...As if woman never ent to hell or heaven..
You say a woman is woman's worst enemy..yes, like every human is that of the other..
The space of action for woman is so little..only a home,,And every effort to curve a separte space is deemed as jealousy..
The system has pitted woman against woman and hence we see them jealous...
As males are in working places..
EVER heard of a king who is jealous of his slave? But you mest have heard slaves being jealous of one another...........
For every bit of light they struggle..for every bit of light that reaches them they have to fight..mother in law, daughter in law alike..
And we say they are jealous...
Read three books..you wil find te translations..
It is by one Ashapurna Devi
The Names are
Prothom Pratishruti
Subarna Lata
Bokul Katha
And you will see again..why woman are against woman...
And lastly, can a free man decide to imprison himself? For whatever...There is the paradox
Wow...it was a healthy debate...I think you both have put very valid points.Now,lets leave it to individuals to choose,but job of a homemaker,taking care of her Kids should not be looked down.
And on the lighter note:Kings are jealous of kings..millions have lost lives due to that reason.
Regards
Well..chirag.taht is the point..Kings are jealous of kings..and not their slaves..and that their domain is bigger, their jealousy is not easily seen..
hahaha...yeah..but when a Slave being jealous of Slave is being compared.....we will seek whether kings are also jealous of Kings?
And the answer is YES ...Kings are jealous of Kings and this has n number of examples in HISTORY.
Hey c'mmon buddy I must say your points are valid and Women should have all independence.Please accept my appreciations for your arguments.
Regards'
:) Too many comments. but worth it!
Thanx Chirag and Ramyangshu for your inputs.
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